do you remember the energy in that room. i mean you knew when they went after each other the battle was on. it was game on time. you had cheers. you had jeers. all that. and people remember those moments. what do you think -- what do you think the president -- what do you think he learned out of that experience? >> you know, i thought about that for a while today, suzanne. i think the president clearly perfected his style. it was pretty clear to me that he started seeing even then that any flashes of anger on his part were more likely than not to go over poorly. so in that debate that you and in moderated together with wolf, we saw efforts by hillary clinton who was also running for president at the time to get under the president's skin, to get under mr. obama's skin again and again and again. it looked like to some degree there in south carolina both hillary clinton and bill clinton were sort of -- were sort of going after him at the same time, trying to fluster him when he got to this debate. he never went there. and i th